Burt Gummer’s Rec Room October 2011 Archive

A gathering place for firearms enthusiasts, paranoid survivalists and those who worship at the Church of Chang 

October. We’re now two years old, and still going strong. Need some big fucking guns though. Really fucking big fucking guns. Nothing less will suffice when hunting giant prehistoric worms in the desert.

Disclaimer: This is the part of the Church that is the most no holds barred. None of it is intended with malice, and although it can on occasion seem a little bit fraught, it is banter rather than venom.

2,239 responses to “Burt Gummer’s Rec Room October 2011 Archive”

  1. koutchboom says :

    FUCK ME!!!!!!!! I’ve been trying to figure out what this movie fucking was for fucking ever! I thought it was fucking Halloween for the longest time:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095484/combined

    Not even watching a trailer I know it has to be the movie with the creepy closest scene I recall fucking me up as a child, just off of that description. FUCK watching that shit tonight.

    OK that’s all three I think. Crawling ant torture – solarbabies. Weird poisoning family – Flowers in the attic, fucked up thing in the closet – Lady in White. WHEW my childhood can rest in peace now.

    • Bartleby says :

      Koutch, effed up thing in a closet?

      I don’t think there’s a scene like that in Lady in White, which is indeed a terrific movie. I was doing a list of kid-perspective horror (not kid’s movies persay) and this is on it.

      But, there’s no creature in a closet in this. The closest is the scene where the kid encounters the little girl ghost in the coatroom of his school or something.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah that’s what I’m talking about. I read that synopsis “blah blah blah something bad in the closet” and saw that kid and I was like
        FUCKKKKKKKK it’s that fucking movie! I mean I don’t recall what it is just that it haunts my fucking nightmares and I knew it was from some movie. Lemme watch it and see before you ruin it all for me.

      • Echo the Bunnyman says :

        Sure it’s not this, Koutch?

      • koutchboom says :

        No it’s lady in white I know it, Lucas Haas has always fucked with my head.

      • koutchboom says :

        Wait I have one more…it’s a movie that ends with some robot like head screaming and people running out of a building in slo mo while it blows up I think and no it’s not Death Machine or Hardware. Also I need to get a copy of Mindwarp to see if that’s the movie I think it is.

      • Droid says :

        Have you seen The Hole? Thought that was quite decent for a kids horror.

      • Echo the Bunnyman says :

        The Joe Dante movie, Droid?

        I enjoyed it, but it wasn’t very creepy–even by a kid’s standard. Sort of reminded me of a more serious-minded version of Eerie Indiana, which I loved as a kid.

      • Droid says :

        Yeah that one. I don’t know. If I’d seen it as a kid, around 9-10 years old, I think I would’ve been pretty terrified.

      • Echo the Bunnyman says :

        Oh no, I think you might mean The Gate.

        The Hole was made last year or the year before.

        The Gate has litle demons running about. I think Jarv revifewed it. The Gate is great fun.

      • Echo the Bunnyman says :

        ignore that… I read that as you had ‘seen it around 9 or 10′

        I guess, maybe the part with the jester clown, yea.

  2. koutchboom says :

    YEY! The Escapist is on netflix instant…only a month after I obtain it by other means. Also looks like SOMEONE was a fan of Martyrs!

    • Bartleby says :

      pontypool just showed up on there too…something else, but it escapes me right now.

      I just watched Machete Maidens Unleashed! about the Philippine b-movie scene. Decent..

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I’ve had the Escapist in my saved DVD queue since Jan 3rd, 2009 lemme see how long Ponypole has been on there, still boggles my mind. You get Planet of the Apes you figure there would’ve been a quick buck tried to be made off of Escapist. You get a Ponypole poster in Twilight 2 you think sublimnially they instilled it in peoples minds to find that movie and would’ve made it easier to see.

      • koutchboom says :

        Ok Ponypole not as long pretty much added it a year later:

        Added to the Saved section of your DVD Queue on 1/24/2010

  3. koutchboom says :

    Hrmmmm Joe Dante directed tonights episode of Hawaii Five O. And it’s got that Freddy fuck in it. That show is pretty terrible. I’m guessing it’s a October 31st special.

  4. koutchboom says :

    Finally something to look forward to:

  5. Xiphos0311 says :

    This Dead Set mini-series is pretty good. I would have got more out of it if I knew anything about Big Brother or why this Davina chick is so hated, still, it was a solid take on a tired drama.

  6. koutchboom says :

    FUCK! Only like 20 some kids came by tonight, I heard some people say that my house was too spooky and scaring kids away. I guess it was the This is Halloween I was pumping all night or strobe light.

  7. Jarv says :

    Watched the Scream Trilogy last night.

    Scream 1- still holds up.

    Scream 2- much better than I remembered it being.

    Scream 3- utter shit. Much worse than I remembered it being.

    • Droid says :

      Scream 1 isn’t going to diminish in quality. It’s genuinely a great film.

      Scream 2 I haven’t seen in long time, but I still go by the rule “Randy dies, movie turns to shit.” But the scene where she’s stuck in the back of the police car and has to get out by climbing into the front seat and over the killer is up there with the best horror scenes. Riveting. Still overall, it’s shit because of the second half of the film.

      Scream 3 does not exist.

      Scream 4 is a clutching at straws retread of the first film. I think you’d hate it.

      • Jarv says :

        Well, I’ll find out soon.

        Scream 2 actually, lasts a bit longer than Randy’s death- this is what I was saying. However, Jackie from Roseanne was fucking hideous in it. Olyphant was good, even if he was channelling Lillard from the first film.

        Scream 3. OH MY FUCKING GOD!!! The whole “mother in Hollywood” section of it is absolutely mind-numbing. Jay and Silent Bob have no business in a Scream film. Wretched crap.

      • Droid says :

        Jay and Silent Bob are in it? Fuck me sideways, I’ve blanked that entire film I think. I gave up on it when they used a fucking video tape to get Randy into the film.

        Laurie Metcalf is fucking dreadful in Scream 2.

        In regards to it lasting longer than Randys death, yes it’s not some immediate change. But that’s the starting point of the slide into shitsville.

      • Jarv says :

        Yup, and he shouldn’t have died like that either. Someone as well versed in horror movies as he is wouldn’t have had his back to the van.

      • Jarv says :

        Jay and Silent Bob are right at the start. Pointless, annoying Cameo.

        Rotten film.

      • Droid says :

        Really is a shit film.

        The way it crapped on about the third film circling back on the the first film storywise, and then just pulled some horseshit mum in hollywood story out of nowhere. So shit. I actually would’ve made the killer be Gale Weathers. With her career on the slide, she starts covering the new Ghost Face murders (which she is perpertrating) and gets famous again. Not perfect, but I think that would’ve had better circular logic than a fucking previously unmentioned abandoned Hollywood family.

      • Jarv says :

        Also, that’s not how trilogies work. And I don’t mean franchises/ extraneous sequels.

        A final part of a trilogy should be culminatory and resolve ALL hanging storylines from the first 2. Think Return of the King or Jedi.

        All that “All bets are off” shit is just that, shit. That hack Kruger pulled it out of his arse.

      • Droid says :

        Normal Trilogy Logic
        Back to the Future

        All bets are off
        Spiderman

      • Jarv says :

        Nice.

        A perfect pair of examples and possibly the worst Trilogy ender of all time.

        Scream 3 really is honk.

      • Jarv says :

        I’ll give you another honking one:

        Matrix Revolutions: at the end, the only reasonable conclusion is that Neo et al are inside the Matrix, but on a different level. Otherwise, you’ve got complete nonsense.

        Which effectively closes the circle, but not in the way they intended, and furthermore, as a late in the game introduction (to a perfectly coherent idea) it sucks a fat one.

      • Jarv says :

        Reminds me:

        How’s your Tintin review? Because I’ve got Pillows final effort.

      • Droid says :

        Still unfinished. Go ahead and post JPT’s review.

      • Jarv says :

        Done.

        Really quite pleased with the intro.

      • Droid says :

        Ahem… when one discusses the Matrix sequels one must repeatedly use the terms vis-à-vis and ergo.

      • Jarv says :

        Hehehehehe

        Like inserting the phrase “ultimately, who gives a fuck” into any comment on the Star Wars Prequels?

  8. Droid says :

    Mohammad Asif and Salman Butt have been found guilty. Good.

  9. Just Pillow Talk says :

    Watched Captain America, and I liked it. I think it boils down to the supporting characters, particularly Tucci, Jones, and the chick who played Peggy Carter. I liked them all, even some of the Howlers. So with this and Thor, a pretty strong year from Marvel.

    • Droid says :

      Meh. Decent origin stuff. Boring action stuff.

      • Just Pillow Talk says :

        Yeah, I do agree the action is pretty average but I enjoyed everything else.

        I think I prefer Thor to it because 1) it surprised me that it was better than I ever thought it would be 2) pretty good action 3) dude playing Thor was good

      • Droid says :

        I liked Thor much more than CA. I think Thor will do an Iron Man on rewatch though, and, like Iron Man, it wil become obvious that half the reason I liked it was that I expected it to be shit.

      • Jarv says :

        I dunno. Thor may well be a lot more fun than Iron Man- which lets be honest is only watchable for Downey.

        IM2 was shit.

      • Droid says :

        IM2 was shit

        Understatement of the week.

        Thor suffers from the same problems as Iron Man.

        No tension
        Crap showdown (robot in Thor, Bridges in IM)
        Entertaining lead performance (distracts from the problems)
        The knowledge that it’s all just an extended trailer for The Avengers

      • Droid says :

        So far, in the pantheon of Marvel extended trailers, from best to worst it’s…

        Thor… 2.5
        Iron Man… 2
        Captain America… 2
        The Incredible Hulk… 0
        Iron Man 2… Orang of Doom

      • Jarv says :

        So far I’d go

        Thor 2.5 (may go down)
        IM 1.5
        Le Hulk 1
        IM 2 Orangutan of Doom.

      • Jarv says :

        Marvel as a whole, best to worst:

        Blade: 3.5
        Blade 2: 3
        Thor: 2.5
        Spidey 2- 2
        X2- 2
        IM 1.5
        Wolverine 1.5
        Spidey 1- 1.5
        Darevevil 1.5
        Le Hulk- 1
        X-men- 1
        Ghost Rider 1
        FF- 0.5
        Chinese Hulk- 0.5
        X3- 0
        Blade 3- 0
        Spidey 3- Orangutan of Doom
        FF2- Orangutan of Doom
        Elektra- Orangutan of Doom.

        I’m probably missing a lot, but that’s a hell of a lot of painful to endure films.

      • Droid says :

        Captain America (1944)… Unseen
        Howard the Duck (1986)… Orang of Doom
        The Punisher (1989)… Barely remember it. A bit shit from what I recall.
        Captain America (1990)… Unseen (although I have it on my PS3)
        The Fantastic Four (1994)… Unseen
        Blade (1998)… Brilliant
        X-Men (2000)… Meh
        Blade II (2002)… Good
        Spider-Man (2002)… Okay
        Daredevil (2003)… DC is decent
        X2 (2003)… Okay
        Hulk (2003)… Great!!!
        The Punisher (2004)… Crap
        Spider-Man 2 (2004)… Okay
        Blade: Trinity (2004)… Garbage
        Elektra (2005)… Orang of Doom
        Man-Thing (2005)… Unseen
        Fantastic Four (2005)… Shit
        X-Men: The Last Stand (2006)… Okay
        Ghost Rider (2007)… Film is crap. Cage’s hairpiece is amazing.
        Spider-Man 3 (2007)… Orang of Doom
        Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007)… Meh
        Iron Man (2008)… Okay
        The Incredible Hulk (2008)… Terrible
        Punisher: War Zone (2008)… Fun
        X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009)… Fun
        Iron Man 2 (2010)… Orang of Doom
        Thor (2011)… Good
        X-Men: First Class (2011)… Shit
        Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)… Okay

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I’d only have to watch like 4 films there. Howard the Duck is awesome shut your mouth. Hating Howard the Duck, you godless being.

      • Droid says :

        HA! Have you watched it recently? I saw it as a little kid and hated it. A few years ago I got it into my head that it was subversive or something and I was merely too young to “get it”. Nope. It’s a piece of shit.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I loved it as a kid, watched it recently and it held up nicely. Duck sex for the win!

      • Jarv says :

        It’s just all funny. Doesn’t he smoke as well?

        That would never get made now.

      • Jarv says :

        You can’t hate Howard the Duck.

        Seriously, that’s like kicking a kid’s Cardboard Box Fort to pieces.

      • Droid says :

        Well, consider be jumping up and down stomping on that Box Fort. It sucks.

      • Jarv says :

        You miserable fucker.

        Typical.

      • Droid says :

        Typical? Me? Please!

      • koutchboom says :

        Also you are missing the David Hasselhoff Nick Fury movie.

      • koutchboom says :

        And technically Kick Ass is a Marvel comic……………………….

      • Jarv says :

        OK-

        Howard the Duck- 2
        Cap 1944 (Unseen)
        PUnisher 89- Meh
        Cap 90- unseen
        Fantastic 4 94- unseen
        Man-Thing- Unseen
        Punisher 2004- Good
        Punisher War Zone- Fun.

      • Jarv says :

        Ah- but against that Thor has:

        Good villain in Loki, Asgard, Hopkins in support.

      • Droid says :

        Yeah, which is why I’d rate it so high. I’m not saying it’s bad. Just I wonder if it will hold up.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I also wonder the further away I get from IM2….if it’ll be less shitty because it still may look decent and I won’t be so let down from it, it’ll probably be just white noise and not piss me off. I have a feeling Captain and Thor may be lame at home….but from what I’ve heard people have enjoyed Thor at home. Still need to see X-Babies, jesus that movie was barely in theaters. It’s nuts to think about it how fucking pointless movie theater runs are…speaking of our convo from yesterday. X-Babies was barely in theaters 12 weeks.

      • Jarv says :

        I enjoyed Thor at home.

        IM2 is an atrocity. Droid was right, it was one of the worst films of last year.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I think the addition of the warriors three even though they were pointless, Hopkins, Loki, Portman, Stellen, Kat all engaged in the movie puts it over Ironman where only Downy seems to be the only one interested in making a fun movie. Also Captain has good performances from everyone as well and makes them a lot less boring.

      • Droid says :

        I don’t think Evans was great. His floating head was okay in the first half, but he was pretty lifeless once he became Cap. And Tommy Lee was Tommy Lee. As expected. Thought little of the girl, or the guy who played Bucky. Wish there was more of Weaving and they gave him something better to do.

      • koutchboom says :

        Evans was fine, he wasn’t boring. That girl was great though, she was probably the best female in an super hero movie in a long time. They actually gave her a purpose and made her part of the plot……sooo of course she’ll never be in any of the next Captain movies.

      • Jarv says :

        Nah- Maggie G in TDK. You know it.

      • koutchboom says :

        Bahahahah I SAID FEMALE ROLES!!! Sure she’s a great male co star, I’m talking female leads in these things.

      • Jarv says :

        You may have boobs, but it isn’t normal for men.

        Anyway, point is, she had a purpose: to get blown up.

        Hehehehehe.

      • koutchboom says :

        Eh Droopy Dog was ok, I always think Batman went to save Harvey because really he loved him because he was prettier. You haven’t seen Cap yet right? You’ll see what I mean, especially when you compare her to say Blake Lifeless in Green Lantern. Droopy has always been a big issue with TDK, there was negative chemistry between her and Bale, and that’s obviously her fault.

      • Droid says :

        Bales Batman is a virgin. Guaranteed.

        Good to see “Blake Lifeless” is catching on. She was fucking dreadful in that film.

      • koutchboom says :

        That whole film was fucking dreadful in that film. Poor Reynolds, maybe if he had made and honest women out of Bullock he’d get better movies…..that or maybe he is just a shitty actor.

      • Droid says :

        I didn’t dislike it as much as you. Reynolds is good in Buried. *he says through clenched teeth*

      • koutchboom says :

        Heheheh well I’ve seen some of his other “acting” movies like Chaos Theory and Nines and they both blew. He must just suck at picking scripts.

      • Droid says :

        I’ve seen neither of those.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah your better off. Though the director of Nines (he wrote Big Fish and some other shit) has a short film called GOD that’s pretty funny, it’s got the funny chick from Bridesmaids.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Jarv

        My top five for 2011

        1) Captain America
        2) Battle L.A.
        3) Fast Five
        4) Rise of the Planet of the Apes
        5) Puss in Boots/Xmen First class/Harry Potter Deathly hallows pt I

      • Jarv says :

        Cheers TKD.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        I will camp on R2′s list

        Captain America (1944)… It is a serial, and it is just fair to ok
        Howard the Duck (1986)… I really liked it but I loved the mag
        The Punisher (1989)… I agree with R2
        Captain America (1990)…I liked it. It was corny and underfunded but i liked it.
        The Fantastic Four (1994)…Torch fx was laugh out loud bad. But story was solid.
        Blade (1998)… Brilliant! Totally agree
        X-Men (2000)…I liked it. Very good intro.
        Blade II (2002)… Great but cant touch the original
        Spider-Man (2002)… Okay to a bit disappointing.
        Daredevil (2003)… I liked it. Still have not seen DC
        X2 (2003)… Great! The best of the series one of all time faves in superhero flicks
        Hulk (2003)… Boring as hell. Poodles and scenery eating by Nolte.
        The Punisher (2004)… Crap
        Spider-Man 2 (2004)… I really liked it on first viewing, does not hold up now though
        Blade: Trinity (2004)… Garbage. Agreed
        Elektra (2005)… Orang of Doom – agreed
        Man-Thing (2005)… Unseen
        Fantastic Four (2005)… It was ok. The family dynamic was great.
        X-Men: The Last Stand (2006)… Surprisingly it did not suck. i liked it.
        Ghost Rider (2007)… Orang of Doom. One of worst films of all time any genrre
        Spider-Man 3 (2007)… Sucked but not quite OOD
        Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007)… Ok, Family dynamic saves it
        Iron Man (2008)…Fantastic! Just a truly great flick only marred by dumb ending
        The Incredible Hulk (2008)…Enjoyable but not memorable
        Punisher: War Zone (2008)… Entertaining and stupid as hell. I liked it!
        X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009)…Just stupid for most part.
        Iron Man 2 (2010)…Absolutely loved it! It gets better each time i watch it!
        Thor (2011)… Good better than expected but should have been epic
        X-Men: First Class (2011)… Great opening sequences that slowly grinds to good
        Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)… My number one favorite Comic book movie!

      • koutchboom says :

        Awww so your the one guy that liked Iron Man 2….I still say that the movie would’ve been a lot better if they had never made it.

      • Jarv says :

        Crikey!

        That’s a fairly glowing report there, TKD.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        I calls em as I sees em. Never one to go with the herd!
        Those are my legit feelings on them. I really Liked IM2 koutch. And it really does keep getting better as the more I see it.

        Downey is fantastic in the role and sometimes characterization trumps story.

      • Jarv says :

        That’s not even the most controversial:

        For example, I’d have OOD’d X3, Spidey 3, and sorely considered it for FF2, yet you’ve let them off.

        Madness!

      • koutchboom says :

        Naw X3/Sipdey 3 and FF2 are at least silly fun something sourly missing in IM2. I’m seriously when I say IM2 as the first time I didn’t at least have any fun with a comicbook/superhero movie. Even Downy seemed bored with the whole thing.

        The X-Men series is fucked because they seem to reboot the series with each new movie so at least X-Men 3 just throws everything at the wall to see what sticks…if anything.

      • koutchboom says :

        I hated IM2 so much I was pretty much done with Marvel films, luckily Thor turned out to be way better than it’s trailers suggested, because I waited a good while before I caved in and saw it. I don’t think I’ve ever been that butt hurt from a franchise. I’m a pretty forgiving guy when it comes to films.

      • Jarv says :

        Spidey 3 I honestly consider to be one of the worst films of the last decade.

        Look at it this way: Dunst sings.

        Twice.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        I wavered on giving Spidey 3 the OoD and I might be persuaded to do so if I saw it again – once was more than enough though. X3 – well, i thought it had some really good action. It had no story – or not much of one and it was very perfunctorily directed, but it was not bad. The only truly stupid thing was the bridge and the only embarrassing thing was the gay reveal of angel – kind of cringe worthy-ton. Get it? Worthington worthy-ton? I made a funny! I do not hate on ratner like some, he is competent if unimaginative.
        FF2 – no it is notOoD, it is bad. i will grant that. Terribly directed. i will grant that, but OoD should be reserved for the true denizens of hell like Ghost Rider of battlefield earth. FF movies were for the kiddies and not down well but had a family spark that I just can not overlook. I admit to having a weakness for the Ff.

        IM2 – well koutch we will just have to agree to disagree. Won’t be the last time either!

      • koutchboom says :

        I mean just think how much more respected Downy would be if IM2 never existed. Fatrow is one of the worst directors, I wonder just how bland Cowboys & Aliens is. I don’t know what it is with IM2, I think it’s because they replaces Howard with that nothing actor Cheedle. We’ll see what the fuck happens with part 3.

      • koutchboom says :

        And like TDK said about X-3 it had some good/great action pieces and so did Spidey 3. I think if they had just taken Venom out of the movie and not revised who killed Uncle Ben to suit the story somehow and just made Sandman a straight up villain it could be a solid entry into the series, hint at Topher as Venom then gone into a balls out Venom story for part 4….oh well that’ll never happen now. I doubt this new Spiderman will get a theatrically released sequel unless it’s some how amazingly huge.

      • Jarv says :

        Venom shouldn’t have been in the film, but that wasn’t the problem. Sandman killing Uncle Ben wasn’t the problem.

        It was the combination of EVERYTHING that sucked in that film- and bollocks were there good action sequences. They were shit- the worst being cutting back to the reporter when the fight was happening. It was a truly, truly awful OOD nailed on film.

      • koutchboom says :

        Eh, I saw Spidey 3 in theaters, god what a month of disappointment that was. Three failed thirds in a row Spidey 3/Shrek 3/Pirates 3 (though I liked it). I don’t really remember Spidey 3, I thought it was OK sort of dumb, I probably like it better than Spidey 1 which I sort of hated, I liked Spidey 2 but I’m not in love with it, Pete Parker was so annoying in the series I could never get behind him fully. I remember that opening fight scene with Goblin was awesome, and him getting Ron Howard’s daughter was cool and the bank heist was cool, but I only remember bits I’d have to watch the whole film again to really say. All I remember was HOW FUCKING PISSED everyone was leaving the theater and how let down my wife was because she loved part 2. THEN like two weeks later watching Pirates 3 in a packed house and I could just feel the excitement slowly getting sucked out of the theater where towards the end people were just miserable to be in there with that movie….but I loved it mainly because I hated Pirates 1-2 and it seems like whoever was involved with Pirates 3 didn’t give a shit either and just threw everything at the wall to see what would stick and it’s just a weird fucking movie with crazy special effects and set pieces with probably the most convoluted plot in big budget movie history. I doubt you can find a single person who can properly explain the through plot line of all three pirates films. I liked Pirates 3, but for all the wrong reasons, I know that, but man that movie was crazy.

        And Shrek 3 was the worst of the Shreks, part 4 sucked sure, but at least it was simple and straight forward, Shrek 3 was just a fucking chore to get through. And at this point in the series Shrek hadn’t become just fucking lame and annoying, Part 2 was still pretty good (i like it better than 1), but man and that month of May in ought 7 only 4 films were released really…with the 4th being another disappointment to many, 28 Weeks Later (again I don’t mind that film, I think it’s a decent horror sequel). I guess in the zombie cannon the sequel is held in high regard because of Dawn of the Dead….and since 28 Day’s Later was the Night of the Living Dead for a new type of Zombie….I guess 28 Weeks Later was no Dawn, but in terms of horror sequels it’s fine, no great shakes more of the same, great opening though.

      • Jarv says :

        I much prefer Ghost Rider to FF2.

        Just purely for the bit where the old guy says that he has one ride left in him (implying that he’ll be of use), he then runs out of fire and buggers off leaving Cage to fight poofdemon by himself.

        “Thanks for that, couldn’t you have used the fire when we got here?”

        And Cage’s hairpiece, naturally.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        I had no interest in cowboys and aliens just looked stupid. As far as Cheedle for Howard. It was an acting upgrade, but Howard screwed himself out of that role with his contract demands. I would have cast a slightly more fit actor as Rhodey though, but because he is wearing armor it really does not matter. At least his voice was a bit deeper than howards!

  10. koutchboom says :

    Man I was watching some bullshit about the Walking Dead and they showed some behind the scenes shit and it just made me wanna put my fist through your face, because it shows WHY movies/TV shows are so god damn ugly these days.

    In the show the scene they were filming looks like it was shot in near pitch black at night….and it’s sort of muddled and blurry and kind of hard to see just fully what the fuck was going on….so I’m watching the scene being film and ITS FUCKING FILMED IN BROD DAYLIGHT! GAH! It’s that digital darkening that just makes shit SOOOO fucking ugly.

    Counter that with Evil Dead 2 which I watch last night where the darks are dark and beautiful and you can tell its fucking nighttime (not all the time you can tell some of the indoor stuff was filmed during the day). But gah it’s just so annoying. I guess now a days film people know they can save money filming in during the day and just putting a filter over it in post.

    • Droid says :

      The Beach is the first film I remember having that digital darkness. The scene where he bones Frenchie for the first time. There’s a shot in the trailer in broad daylight. In the movie it’s metal blue.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I know what you are talking about, see with someone like Boyle I’m willing to bet it’s a more personal choice to try something different (or MAYBE with the fucked up filming of that movie they may have not been allowed to film at night?) and it’s really only horror movies and action movies that annoy me when they do it, because then it allows them to have shittier effects, bad fighting. But yeah what happened to night shoots?

      • Col. Tigh-Fighter says :

        LOTR did it too, The scene where Pippin is looking for Merry after he twats the Witch King. In the theatrical version its daylight, but by the time the EE DVD came out it was dusk.

        In my experience most DOP’s would rather shoot at the right time. The only time Ive seen them do it on one of my ones is where there was no choice about it (regarding location or cast/crew availability).

        Just doing a whole day then filtering it seems a but cheating to me.

    • TomBodetski says :

      Captain America (1944)… Unseen
      Howard the Duck (1986)… never saw it
      The Punisher (1989)…ditto
      Captain America (1990)… Unseen
      The Fantastic Four (1994)… Unseen
      Blade (1998)… Only caught parts of it
      X-Men (2000)…I liked it, good lead off for the series.
      Blade II (2002)… Haven’t seen it
      Spider-Man (2002)… Okay, him learning to be Spidey are the best parts.
      Daredevil (2003)… I like this. Affleck’s last hit til the Town.
      X2 (2003)… Pretty good, over-rated at the time.
      Hulk (2003)… Boring. Desert sequences are the best part.
      The Punisher (2004)… Never saw
      Spider-Man 2 (2004)… This is good. Slowish in places.
      Blade: Trinity (2004)… Garbage
      Elektra (2005)… Didn’t see it.
      Man-Thing (2005)… Unseen
      Fantastic Four (2005)… Better than it’s rep. Good casting save for the Blonde.
      X-Men: The Last Stand (2006)… Okay has it’s moments
      Ghost Rider (2007)… Caught maybe 20 minutes of this too. So so.
      Spider-Man 3 (2007)… Overstuffed should be better.
      Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007)…Caught last half hour seemed okay, ala the first.
      Iron Man (2008)… It’s great. Fuck you.
      The Incredible Hulk (2008)… Pretty good. Need to see DC.
      Punisher: War Zone (2008)…Never saw it.
      X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009)…No interest
      Iron Man 2 (2010)… Disappointing. C’mon guys this should be easy.
      Thor (2011)… Have yet to see.
      X-Men: First Class (2011)… ZZZZZ. Has okay parts but whatever.
      Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)… This is good!

  11. koutchboom says :

    YOU GUYS AREN’T LISTENING:

    • Jarv says :

      Alright, I’ll give you that that looks fairly awesome.

      • Droid says :

        Much better than SLJ!

      • Bartleby says :

        Ive seen this. Its not even as cheesy entertaining as that cover makes it look. For one thing, its not a direct to video movie, but a Fox tv movie from the late 90s, which almost automatically makes it awful.

        Also, Droid did you say IM2 is a OOD too? But you gave it 1.5 stars when you first saw it. Did it get that much worse?

        I think the hate against that movie is off. It’s not good, I agree, and very boring, but it doesnt do anything either way that I found great or offensive.

      • koutchboom says :

        but it doesnt do anything either way that I found great or offensive.

        Exactly (well besides stealing a great Oldman scene) it does nothing, which is worse in my book. I’d rather see just balls out crazy nonsense (see what I said about Pirates 3) or just something stupidly fun (X-Men 3) rather than this bland nothing of a film. Was there even any action scenes in IM2?

      • Droid says :

        For example, as bad as Batman Forever and B&R are, at least they’re garish trainwrecks. IM2 was just astonishingly boring.

      • Droid says :

        I grossly overrated it. I wrote a quickie review of it immediately after watching it. As the dust settled I thought less (and less and less) of it. It’s also a Pirates 4 scenario. They can’t spend that much money, and have access to those resources, and turn out a lazy, dull, entertainmentless borefest. It’s a massive fuck you to the fans of the first one, and the comic.

      • koutchboom says :

        It would be balls out, if they did a comic book movie….that say directly spins off the end of the events of Avengers and plays out like a decent 3 comic arch where there is little to no action for the first part of the film and just character building moments, then balls out action for the last hour….though they kind of already did that in TF3, which I doubt any Marvel fill will be able to top.

      • Bartleby says :

        Well, the thing thats weird to me is that the people who made the original a hit–genral audiences, some of which are fans Im sure– didnt have a massively negative reaction to IM2. I know few who love it, but most seemed to think it was a fine sequel. Im not saying it is, but its certainly not seen as an FU to the fans (by most).

        Part of that is I think the gap in qulaity between IM1 and IM2 isnt that big. I really only enjoyed Downey and The Dude in the original, and could have taken or left the rest. The sequel only has Downey and, as Koutch points out, very few action scenes. Thinking back on it, though, the original has very few too.

        It’s an overrated series with a good performance stretched for good will over two movies.

      • Droid says :

        most seemed to think it was a fine sequel

        I think we’ve established that most people are idiots.

      • koutchboom says :

        Well yeah I didn’t like IM1 that much either. I remember I saw IM1, Hulk, Hellboy 2 all within like a month of each other with a buddy and IM1 was my least favorite and IM1 was his most favorite…and he only had a high school diploma. Heheheh I’m just fucking with that last bit before anyone starts to give a shit. But yeah I never really like IM1 past the trailer. That’s another thing with both IM1-2, why bother watching the movie when you can just watch the trailers? Both films are weak and pull their punches, they never go all out and have some of the worst scores in a big film. That is Marvel’s BIGGEST failure, none of there heroes have fucking theme music. Spidey has more memorable music. At least Thor/Captain had passable music in their movies, it’s sort of blah nothing on it’s own. But that lame guitar crap in IM…..especially when they came out in the trailer and played IRONMAN the song you’d just fucking assume OK they are admitting there is the IRONMAN song…bad ass they are just going to make it his theme song….but no no such luck. They play an instrumental version of it over the credits in IM1, just so fucking lame.

      • Jarv says :

        I actually agree with this. Fucking Black Sabbath WROTE THE FUCKING SONG years ago- just use it- it is there and everyone knows it.

      • Bartleby says :

        Thats what we want, then. Ti West’s Avengers.

      • Bartleby says :

        Im not necessarily arguing that aren’t—otherwise, how would Transformers be so big and Roland Emmerich a successful director? why is Stephanie Meyers sold outside of Mormon bookstores? because general audience are idiots, sure.

        But, I’m saying theres not so much difference as you think between parts one and 2. Mostly, 2 just verifies they had nothing other than an origin story to tell.

        No one here seemed to think the first one was great–save Toad–and so were even more disappointed by 2. Those I know–some of which, like Toad, are nowhere near idiots– who loved the first, at least liked the second.

        I fall closer to everyone else, but just felt it was more innocuous than actively awful.

        Eh, defending IM2 is a fool’s mission.

      • Droid says :

        Hey, you said it. Fool!

        hehe

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        First up Hasselhoff Fury- It sucked. TV movie crap.

        As for IM being over rated. Nope. It was fantastic up until the last battle which was stupid. The nailed every single aspect of the character – and this is from a lifelong fan of IM -he is my number one comic book hero of all time.

        I loved IM – except for the ending otherwise knows as ILIMEFTE, and all audiences agreed because for the very first time a comic book character felt much closer to ‘real life’ than had ever been done before. Credit to Downey.

        IM2 had more character moments buts tsill dleivered on teh action. I do agree that Mickey was miscast and I would have chosen a different villain, but the action at the end was balls out against the drones.

        Only sour note was the Rhodey war machine thing and I was not sold on Rockwells Hammer.I actually liked Scarlett and she did well – wirefu and quick cuts not withstanding.

        I am not a fan of sam jackson as fury, but cant win em all

      • koutchboom says :

        So there was some action in IM2? Could’ve fooled me.

        In other IM2 news:

        Scarlett Johansson says the self-shot nude photos that were hacked from her phone were only intended for an audience of one — then-hubby Ryan Reynolds.

        Scarlett opened up about the pics to Vanity Fair … saying, “They were sent to my husband … there’s nothing wrong with that.”

        Johansson adds, “It’s not like I was shooting a porno … although there’s nothing wrong with that either.”

      • koutchboom says :

        I don’t think anyone thinks IM1 is over rated, it’s fine. Downy does good, but jesus you people hating on Tron 2….see IM1 for a example of Jeff Bridges sleep walking through a role. I think the biggest issue with the IM movies is in those character moments….they’ve admitted that they barely had any script for the movies and it felt like no one could ever keep up with RDJ depending on how much he was ad libbing. You know Paltrow can’t ad lib so that always sucked. Downy is the highlight of IM1 and that’s about it. I mean IM1-2 are just odd films because they look and feel like they should be breezy fun but then you see the fuck who created Paypal with a cameo in IM2 (who I guess is some inspiration for Stark?) and yeah it’s just lame. That drunk party fight is one of the most embarrassing scenes I’ve ever seen in a movie.

      • Jarv says :

        There’s so much wrong with IM2 that I don’t even know where to begin-

        • It’s boring, first of all. Not to mention that the daddy story thing is agonising.
        • There are too many supporting characters. Far, far too many. It dilutes the story rendering what we are watching inconsequential.
        • Stark is massively unsympathetic. He just behaves like a cunt for the entire film.
        • The supporting characters- C.F. Rhodes are massively unsympathetic.
        • The Villains are not interesting.
        • The action is a mess, what little there is.

        I can keep going, but you get the idea. It’s terrible.

      • Bartleby says :

        well, at least we agree that Howard the Duck is an abomination.

      • Jarv says :

        Soulless bastards

        Howard the Duck is awesome.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Since i am not an effete movie snob and do not consider my taste too far outside of the mainstream, i will say that ‘all of us idiots’ generally have a good time at the cinema because we choose to see the movies that interest us as opposed to those oh so precious few that sniff at popular sentiment as if it were some disease – basically the movie going equivalent of Ted Kascinsky

      • Droid says :

        hehe I mean no offense TKD! I just prefer my popcorn entertainment to be fun. And a lot of them don’t manage to capture any sense of fun whatsoever. I want OTT action and crazy chases/stunts like in Fast Five. That’s my kinda popcorn flick.

      • koutchboom says :

        Also IM2 didn’t make more money that IM1 (state side anyway) and only made a few more worldwide IM1 – Worldwide: $585,174,222, IM2 – Worldwide: $623,933,331, so again at least the general audience didn’t blindly love it and see it like most sequels. I mean with all the love IM1 got you would’ve thought IM2 would be huge (and I think it had some record setting opening), but it’s one of the few cases of some giant comic film making less than the original (stateside).

      • Bartleby says :

        Jarv, watch HTD now. I bet you haven’t seen it in awhile. It was never good to begin with, but I too returned to it–expecting something off-kilter like Buckaroo Banzai–and finding it still is just plain old crap from beginning to end.

        Everything you just typed as being wrong with IM2–take out daddy issues and add the words duck sex–is wrong with Howard.

      • koutchboom says :

        Hahahah there is 0 comparison to Howard the Duck and IM2. Howard the Duck has Duck porn for Christ sakes…..what in either IM movie was that inventive?

      • Droid says :

        If Iron Man was made in the 80′s by the HTD people, I bet you Stark would’ve made that robot arm gizmo helper give him a hand job.

      • koutchboom says :

        IF ONLY! Then we can have Lucas rereleasing it in 3D soon.

      • Bartleby says :

        yea, I wasnt calling you an idiot Toad, while pointing out that there are some cases of blind-sheep moviegoing, but that was my point.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Howard the Duck is awesome and you risk having an HE (artillery High Explosive shell) dropped from high altitude onto the bridge of your nose if you speak otherwise!

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Ha! R2 and bart, no offense taken! Can not do nuance or sarcasm well in a quick post.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Good lord Koucth, do not tell me you are one of those box office buffoons who only measure the quality of a movie by its BO or even worse rotten tomatoes score.
        I would not have expected that from you.

        If I like a movie, to hell what others think about it.

      • koutchboom says :

        Ummmmm we are talking about general consensus of the IM series? And I was pointing out how IM2 didn’t do the typical sequel money, it’s relevant to the conversation.

      • Droid says :

        C’mon TKD! Doncha know Alice in Wonderland is a great fucking film. Everyone knows it! You should too! It’s got over a billion bucks of proof!

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Koutch, I think you were stretching a point trying to use the BO. You could point to any number of sequels that did better or worse or just the same as the beloved original. Means little with regards to quality.

        I accept that I am alone on this site with my regard for IM2, no biggie. Yes, Stark was far more unlikable in IM2 which was exactly the way he was supposed to be. One of the reasons I loved it. Although it did not adhere to the Demon in a Bottle story, it did follow the character arc even including hammer. Stark in those issues was a supreme dick because of the drinking and stress. I loved that they went a bit down that road.

      • koutchboom says :

        Not really:
        Batman Begins: $372,710,015
        The Dark Knight: $1,001,921,825

        Pirates 1: $654.3
        Pirates 2: $1,066.2

        Transformers 1: $709.7
        Transformers 2: $836.3

        There are more examples, but it was noted how there was minimal box office bump between IM 1-2, when usually there’s a much bigger gap. Probably why Fatrow is off part 3.

        There is one weird exception to all this:
        Spidey 1: $821.7
        Spidey 2: $783.8
        Spidey 3: $890.9

        ???? with Spidey 2 being probably the most universally loved comic book movie until The Dark Knight, that probably explains the dumping of Venom in part 3 more than anything.

        The Box office between IM 1-2 is odd because IM 1 was SOOOO beloved that you’d figure IM2 would’ve blown up at the box office. I closer comparison would be Hangover 1-2, where Hangover 1 was universally loved…2 came out…it was big but must people hated it and it was much of the same which was the same thing with IM1-2.

        And there is nothing wrong with bringing Box office numbers into a convo about movies, to act otherwise is silly. Yes I don’t rate movies based on Box office but they are an integral part of movies. And especially when we are talking about general like/dislike of a film not just personal tastes, which is what Echo brought into the conversation. And the box office numbers show that IM2 wasn’t some straight up universally loved film, you can tell with the numbers some fans were pissed off. Especially with how well IM1 was received. If I had to guess and some how had the ability to poll the world I’m pretty sure The Dark Knight would rank number 1, IM 1 number 2 and Spiderman 2 number 3 in terms of people’s favorite comic book action hero movie. Spiderman 2 only beats IM1 because IM1 is newer. And usually when something is that universally loved he box office numbers for part 2 would be much bigger.

      • Jarv says :

        Tell you what’s interesting there:

        BB—–> TDK.

        Wow. I get that Nolan had to reboot Batman after the fiasco, but crikey.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I like BB better than TDK as well, but we are in the minority with that, everyone loves TDK you can’t stop it.

      • Jarv says :

        Both good films, certainly upper ranking funnybook ones.

      • Droid says :

        I don’t think that’s what Jarv is saying. I think he’s commenting on the difference in BO.

        I like BB more than The Joker.

      • koutchboom says :

        Ohhh yeah it’s odd, also what’s odd is that The Dark Knight is the only movie in like the top 50 that made more money Stateside.

      • Droid says :

        Yeah International BO pretty much rules the roost now. It makes hits out of the biggest duds. Look at The Tourist. It’s made over $200m from OS BO I think. Something along those lines.

        Tintin looks like it’s going to be a big OS hit.

      • Droid says :

        The Tourist

        Domestic: $67,631,157 24.3%
        + Foreign: $210,715,032 75.7%

        ——————————————————————————–

        = Worldwide: $278,346,189

      • Jarv says :

        If Tinsquared isn’t then someone needs a fucking kicking. Where I work, there are loads of kids EXCITED to see it, because they’ve been reading Tintin in French and shit.

        And that’s in England- it’s got a massive inbuilt global audience.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah it broke some records last weekend. Heheh watch it barely get 70 million here.

      • Droid says :

        Yeah, it really should be a guarantee. But you never know.

      • Jarv says :

        After that you got the Focker trilogy, Toy Story 2, Bruce Almighty and Home Alone 2 in the top 100 of all time.

        Christ, and you were trying to pretend Box office was quality yesterday.

      • koutchboom says :

        Oops I mean Home Alone 1, there it’s not that bad now. Hehehe.

      • Jarv says :

        Also, with kids there’s a good chance of multiple showings. It SHOULD be massive.

      • Droid says :

        I know one man-child that will be seeing it again!

      • Jarv says :

        Hence the fucking restraining order we’ve got on you.

      • Droid says :

        A restraining order for seeing Tintin? Bit harsh doncha think?

      • Jarv says :

        Not when there are children present.

      • Droid says :

        I reckon the grumpy guss that wallows in misery porn would be a likelier candidate for a restraining order.

      • Jarv says :

        Nope.

        Children aren’t present at misery porn. Whereas you’re likely to get overexcited at Tin2

      • Droid says :

        I’m not talking about a cinema restraining order. I’m talking about how you’ve managed to misrepresent yourself into a job working alongside little kids. You need a restraining order placed upon your person. Or maybe just one of those sandwich boards saying “kiddie fiddler”. See how close you get to a school yard then!

      • Jarv says :

        I’ve managed to misrepresent myself up the corporate ladder and am spending less and less time on site. For example, tomorrow I shall be working from home for the morning then off to Hampstead in the afternoon.

        I could get used to that.

      • Jarv says :

        Incidentally, how’s the tube? I am sure while I am eating a delicious bacon sandwich tomorrow morning you’ll be loving it.

      • Droid says :

        *clears throat*

        FUCK. YOU.

        CUNT.

      • Droid says :

        Speaking of the loathesome tube. I’m off. Adios bitches.

      • koutchboom says :

        Please mind the gap on your way home.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I heard in like a few years China box office will be greater than American’s. I think there is a lot of unreported Box office out of China though. Also they have fucked up releases and only like 12 non Chinese films can be released theatrically there? I’m not sure if that’s true or not though.

      • koutchboom says :

        Spiderman is close:
        30 Spider-Man Sony $821.7 $403.7 49.1% $418.0 50.9% 2002

        Heheh the only post 1982 film that’s state side heavy are….hehehehe
        57 Iron Man 2 Par. $623.9 $312.4 50.1% $311.5 49.9% 2010
        60 The Passion of the Christ NM $611.9 $370.8 60.6% $241.1 39.4% 2004^
        69 Iron Man Par. $585.2 $318.4 54.4% $266.8 45.6% 2008

        After that you got the Focker trilogy, Toy Story 2, Bruce Almighty and Home Alone 2 in the top 100 of all time.

      • Droid says :

        Or maybe he is saying that! Bah! Is it home time yet?

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Alice in Wonderland did a billion? Damn. Well they did not get a dime from me.
        I saw Puss in Boots at IMAX 3d with the nieces – damn did I shell out for that flick! But I laughed and the girls loved it so did my wife. It was far superior to the shrek films.

      • Droid says :

        It was far superior to the shrek films.

        That’s because PIB is an amusing character and Shrek is an annoying cunt.

        Yeah, AIW did over a billion. It didn’t get my money either. But it rode the coat tails of Avatar’s 3D, and made a disgusting amount of cash. And now we’re getting Snow White movies and Wizard of Oz movies. Fucking Burton. Fuck off.

      • Jarv says :

        I wish I’d remembered that when we were arguing about Box Office Yesterday.

      • koutchboom says :

        Those numbers had nothing to do with yesterday’s convo about box office.

        What worries me about PIB is that it’s from the director of Shrek 3…..I still wanna see it.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Koutch, here is the end all argument to BO – at least as far as i am concerned, and to your sequels theory – which I think you cherry picked anyway, but I am not going to check into it. Star Wars and Empire Strikes back.
        SW was universally loved. Empire was universally loved. Some love Empire more than SW but guess which one had biggest initial box office? Go ahead.
        No, I do not mean re-release I mean initial.

        I am not saying BO can not ever be brought up, but as a measure of quality it should never be mentioned because it does not measure quality it measure quantity. That does make make them mutually exclusive but it does mean they are separate

      • koutchboom says :

        Naw you can’t bring up Star Wars, it was a different game back then. I’m talking post 9/11 Box office which is much more easily predictable.

      • koutchboom says :

        Also back when Star Wars came out most of the rest of the world didn’t even know what movies where, that’s not the case today. Just like in these past couple of years Russia has finally got their shit together and are emerging as a heavy weight in the world box office, where as before all they had for entertainment was vodka and machine guns.

      • koutchboom says :

        Also…..did TDK just compare Iron Man 1 to Star Wars? And Iron Man 2 to Empire Strikes Back??????????????????????

      • Droid says :

        Russia has one of the highest rates of piracy in the world. So much so that they release dvds in Russia (in Russian only) almost immediately.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I think China has the biggest, but that’s because they don’t show many non Chinese films in theaters. Also they come out like years later. They just now are getting something…fuck what was it, like Pirates 4 or some shit.

      • Droid says :

        This is from 2004, but still applies.

        The American film industry is fighting rampant DVD piracy in Russia with a radical new tactic: cutting prices.

        To fight piracy here, where 9 out of 10 DVD’s sold are counterfeit copies, Columbia TriStar, a division of Sony, will price DVD’s at no more than 299 rubles, or just over $10, less than half its current price. Warner Home Video, a division of Time Warner, has already cut its DVD prices in Russia to the equivalent of $15.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/07/movies/hollywood-competes-with-street-russia-combat-rampant-dvd-piracy-us-film.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah back in 2004 there were only about 14 theaters in all of Russia now there is at least 50:

        Then:
        http://www.boxofficemojo.com/intl/cis/?yr=2004&wk=44&p=.htm

        Now:
        http://www.boxofficemojo.com/intl/cis/?yr=2011&wk=42&p=.htm

      • Droid says :

        Rum Diary’s a hit somewhere!!!

        hehe Even The Thing can’t get no rubles.

      • Droid says :

        Star Wars was a phenomenon. Empire wasn’t.

        Empire is the superior film, but Star Wars is my favourite.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Ha! Koutch, furiously backpedaling. So, now it is post 9/11?
        Well, I could easily say SW was post watergate. What the hell does post 9/11 mean with regards to box office anyway? Nothing.

        Your argument is based upon a false premise. And let metell you that Sw wa a worldwide phenomenon and the three year wait for Empire was one of the biggest build ups in history and yet…it was not a bigger movie in terms of BO.
        It did get mixed reviews. And although I loved it then and now, Star Wars is still my favorite. The anticipation was incredible for it though. And lest not even talk about Jedi which was through the roof.

      • Droid says :

        What’s November 9th got to do with anything?

      • koutchboom says :

        ??? What’s your point? Yes Star Wars was huge? That Empire and ET are like the only movies with Box Office (not with inflation) that are still in the top 100, after that it’s like Jurrassic Park, Lion King, Home Alone and Titanic that are pre 1998. I mean if you assume profits are made the same way they were back in the early 80s late 70s….then that’s your issue to figure out. Obviously movies are marketed much differently in this post 9/11 world. I’ve not back peddled your the one that brought in a useless argument. Also you assume Box Office numbers were tracked just as good back then then they are now???? Again that’s an issue you need to come to grips with, most movies pre like 1995 barely have any international box office records for them. Sooo again…how is IM the new Star Wars???

      • koutchboom says :

        There are 20 films in the top 100 grossing films of all time that came out before 2000.

      • Droid says :

        That’s because you have to remortgage your house to pay for a cinema ticket these days.

      • koutchboom says :

        And yeah that’s what I’m saying, you can’t even compare box office from now to old shit, because the actual audience difference is huge, granted it’s not as crazy as some think, but it’s a big deal. So to act like Star Wars box office numbers have anything to do with modern day box office numbers is pointless.

      • Droid says :

        It would be great to see attendance numbers instead of BO numbers.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I’d like that. I’d also like a bigger break down state to state here.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Good gravy Koutch, you youngsters are all they same -assuming you invented the world. Box office has been tracked since film was invented. Film has been international since the 1910′s. is it tracked the same? We have the internet now. No, but money is money and that is always the same. Foreign markets have been huge for hollywood for half a century or more.

        I am not comparing IM to SW in terms of quality, I am saying your argument that a sequels BO is always greater than the popular original is false. Notice I even gave you wiggle room by not saying I though you meant every sequel should have greater BO than its original.

        I am saying you cherry picked the biggest sequels from some franchises to bolster your argument while ignoring the vast history of cinema that has produced just as many sequels that underperformed or performed just as well as the original as the sequels that made more money. i will go even further, I bet that there are far more sequels that under performed or only did as well as the originals than those that made more money regardless the quality of the original.

        This has zip to do with adjustments for inflation or post 9/11 whatever that is supposed to mean. It has nothing to do with foreign markets.

        You said yourself that IM2 had a bigger foreign market than IM, and only slightly less domestic.

        What exactly is your point?

        I pointed out that the biggest movie of all time (and yes i know avatar has made more but not on an ROI basis) which had a sequel that was FAR more anticipated than IM2, said sequel did not even come close to matching the original BO and you said it was because it was before 9/11? or box office was not tracked? Ha! Please. Bet you think your generation invented sex and video games too!

      • koutchboom says :

        I didn’t cherry pick anything….if I did why would I include Spiderman? I picked the first ones I saw on the list, I would’ve used Harry potter if I knew what order they went in, also I tried to pick similar movies and I think we can agree Transformers (Robots) and The Dark Knight (comic book) are similar to Ironman (comic book robot). If you don’t see how there is an inherent difference in box office between the 1970s and now….then you may as well not talk about box office. Do you really think international box office was tracked as well as it is today back then? Also like I pointed out good luck finding records for most movies internationally speaking pre 1995.

        If you follow box office like I do, and I’ve already explained this. The positive word of mouth of IM1 and it’s critical consensus it should’ve made a decent amount more money than IM1. I was mainly talking to Echo when I brought this up who was talking about how he thinks most general IM fans were ok with 2 and while me/jarv/droid/ and him weren’t we weren’t really the fan base and how the movie really isn’t a fuck you to the fan base. And I was pointing out how if you want to bring up the general public in terms of fan base IM2 obviously had some drop off, because it’s common practice now for mega movies with a beloved first film to significantly out perform the original at the box office. Like Jarv keeps saying, big movies today are so consensus based marketing/branding that it’s much easier to predict a winner and in terms of box office for what Ironman 1 did, Ironman 2 under performed. This has nothing to do with Star Wars numbers. If you want I can find more numbers (half the problem is that there aren’t many comic book movie sequels). I mean if you want to know a tried and true test of sequels in terms of box office that up until recently has stayed true, each and every James Bond grossed more money than the one previous (which was only changed with Quantum of Solace).

        Also what do basic facts and numbers have anything to do with generational gaps? You’ve got no idea my age? I could be older than you? But yes keep telling me that box office was tracked the same way back in the 70s as it was now, and that the actual number of theaters world wide has stayed pretty consistent since then as well. Or did you miss that only 20 films in the top 100 highest grossing films of all time are from pre 2000.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Yes box office is tracked differently, um, big deal. Money is the same, or do you think people could not count 25 years or more ago?
        That is what blows my mind. You think because we have the internet and different tracking mechanisms that before the internet people did not know where their money was going to or coming from? You think studios did not kknow how many prints they had out or how many theaters existed? The world has been tracking money and movies for a very long time and over vast distances.
        I know you are younger than me simply because of your cultural references. We have different touchstones. If you were older than me or my approximate age then you would have known immediately the impact that SW and Empire had and you would never have used a post 9/11 argument.

        No doubt the international audiences are larger and a bigger factor today than they have ever been. No argument there at all.

        But your BO argument is false and you did cherry pick. i said that sequels are just as likely to under perform or do as well as the originals. Ok, you made me look some things up.
        Here are the facts based upon yon website – one of many.

        http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/series/franchises.php

        Of the top fifteen movie franchises of all time here is how they break down.

        Harry Potter No, the direct sequel did not make more than original
        Star Wars 8 No, the direct sequel did not make more than original
        James Bond Yes and no. Only Connery’s did. All others had drop off’s from their first outing.
        Batman 8 No and yes. The Burton ones did not, the Nolan ones did
        Shrek 5 Yes direct sequel made more than original
        Pirates of the Caribbean 4 Yes direct sequel made more than original
        Spider-Man 3 No, the direct sequel did not make more than original
        Transformers 3 Yes direct sequel made more than original
        Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings 3 Yes direct sequel made more than original
        Star Trek 11 No, the direct sequel did not make more than original
        Indiana Jones 4 No, the direct sequel did not make more than original
        X-Men 5 Yes direct sequel made more than original
        Toy Story 4 Yes direct sequel made more than original
        Twilight 4 Yes direct sequel made more than original
        Jurassic Park No, the direct sequel did not make more than original

        That shows that 7 of the top fifteen direct sequels and number one and two all time did not make more than the original. I will not even go into the Bond phenomenon because it seems to follow the popularity of the actor but I will add it as a yes for Connery alone.

      • koutchboom says :

        Ugh who uses the numbers awful site. Use Box Office Mojo next time, less spamy.

      • koutchboom says :

        Hehehe I didn’t fucking cherry pick? I just grabbed the first three I saw???? Again how am I fucking cherry picking if I picked a movie that goes against my theory?????????????????

        And yes I know how big Star Wars was, I remember how excited I was waiting in line to see Empire still to this day. I don’t even know what you are on about anymore. I’ve explained myself and why i brought it up, again it was more in a reply to what Echo said. And yes I do believe that Box office numbers are much better tracked these days then back then, mainly because everything is better tracked then was back then why would movies be some standard that never changes? I mean you think now a days (and yes this is a little off) one of the highest “said” grossing films of all time Deep Throat would get away with getting ALL that money and not have it go reported? Deep Throat was a mob owned film pretty much and money was made under the counter, now I know XXX films are much different than feature films, but no ones really done a study into the lost revenue of some films. But I bet if you talk to Robert Evans he can tell you just how they did it. And again like I’ve said besides huge movies its hard to find solid numbers on what most movies did internationally like pre 1995 (that’s an arbitrary date by the way I’m just thinking on what I’ve seen), maybe the numbers are out there just not easily accessible to me and you.

        I think you don’t know what you are arguing? Pretty much bottom line now a days sequels are expected to out gross their predecessors, again I point to post 9/11 films because we live in a post 9/11 nation we don’t live in the past, the only sequels on your list that aren’t post 9/11 that didn’t out gross the sequels are Harrys Potter and Spiderman and THE SEQUELS to there sequels out grossed the originals. Also you should’ve included Da Vinci Code and Angles and Demons if you wanted to prove something. Go get me the numbers on Blade 1-2, Hellboy 1-2, Fan Four 1-2 and then we’ll see if we are cooking , through Charlies Angles 1-2 in there as well (they may as well been comic book movies).

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Dang, trying again.
        I am not going to do any more researching on this I think my point is proven, i have shown multiple instance where the sequel did not out perform the original in blockbusters no less. If you want to keep moving the bar by now claiming it was only superhero movies and only post 9/11 super hero movies at that,where the sequel out performs the original and BTW IM2 by your own account did just that, well then so be it. I have no idea what Echo had to do with the discussion, today but if that was a different conversation, so be it.

        I will concede that we have greater transparency in movie accounting than before but not accounting itself.

        Movies can still be made to show a loss even on what the gen pop would perceive to be enormous profit and in that way box office tracking is meaningless.

        I say the big studios that fund the movies have always known where their profits come form and how much. The gen pop is more aware these days than ever before but only to a certain extent – the BO itself.

      • koutchboom says :

        I said I brought up Box office due to something echo said about IM 2 from earlier in the conversation, you must’ve missed that. And I’ve never moved the bar you did. I’ve always stuck with recent franchise films post 9/11.

      • koutchboom says :

        Here are some articles talking about the lack luster Box office of IM 2:

        http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2801&p=.htm
        http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2778&p=.htm

        You lost my point from the get go trying to bring Star Wars into the mix.

        “Downey’s charming and witty bad boy image, informed by the heft of his dramatic chops, matched the character of Tony Stark, and Iron Man blasted off with $98.6 million its first weekend and went on to earn $318.4 million by the end of its run. It would rank as the second-biggest movie of the year behind The Dark Knight. What Downey did for Iron Man was legitmately compared to what Johnny Depp brought to Pirates of the Caribbean, and it’s a rarity in this day and age for an actor to make more than a lick of difference. ”

        Soooo again other people comparing Downy to Pirate/Batman not just me.

      • koutchboom says :

        It’s kind of funny here they blame the marketing of IM2 for not pushing hard enough:

        http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2766&p=.htm

  12. Droid says :

    Iron Man had the biggest drop off in entertainment value upon second viewing since Twister. I really enjoyed it at the cinema. A 3 Chang film. When I watched it again at home a year later I was intensely bored.

    X-Men: The Phantom Menace had a decent first 30 minutes, with the highlight being Fassbender vs Submarine. Bacon was amusing, particularly in the opening scene. Once they introduce the school, the dull kid characters and the training montage et al it went to pieces. And the ex Mrs Draper is hands down the worst actress to come along in ages. She needs to stick to being a bitter cow on Mad Men.

  13. Bartleby says :

    Neither Box Office or RT are a true indicator of quality. I think we all treat them that way sometimes because we have been trained to put stock in them –really, why is the top entertainment news story how much money something made?–and because they are easily quantifiable and can occasionally prevent us from seeing somethign we are on the fence about.

    They are also helpful in assembling a ghost army when we are arguing the merit of something. Sudenly you have 30 critics or 50,000 movie patrons giving a background ‘Yes!’ to your argument. So, that’s appealing.

    But ultimately they are never going to be good indicators of quality because there are too many variables with them that rent set-up to measure quality. Not every critic looks for the same things, has the same background, values the same genres.

    Weekend tickets–especially first weekend–are purchaesd before anyone has seen the movie, so if they are an indicator of quality, they only point to how effective the reviews were in getting people there–and they rarely are effective, ask Harry–and that puts you back to the start.

    So, while box office can be an interesting beast in and of itself, it is virtually useless in defending a movie of any kind.

    • koutchboom says :

      It can if put in the correct context. Which is what I did with IM and Insidious yesterday.

      Yes you can’t just go blabbing on about how much money a movie made, but if you follow the numbers and trends how a movie performs does say something about that movie. I mean yes some films finical success are unexplainable, and it all comes down to timing and marketing. But I think to just write off box office numbers as a whole is stupid. I mean….if everyone thought that way….there wouldn’t have been an Inception or The Dark Knight for that matter. Studios weigh both box office numbers and peoples reaction to films. If they just looked at one or the other they would fail.

      • Bartleby says :

        This is true Koutch, but they dont necessarily say anything about the quality of a singular film, not these days. E.T. playing for years or Star Wars inciting lines week later, yes. I think box office is good at pointing out the durability of a franchise, of certain durable ideas, or genres.

        Box office is an important part of the industry, yes, and unfortunately it’s been fashioned into a significant part of the overall conversation too.

        I’d say that the box office of Insidious–or any other movie persay– does not point to the quality of the film in any way.It’s ultimate box office success–and the extent of that success–does speak to its creator’s ability to make a comparable scare flick on a budget.

        I think enduring box office will cause an eyebrow, especially in this day and age of shortened theatrical windows and inflated ticket prices, but when was the last time we had that happen? Avatar and before that Titanic but we all know Cameron has a deal with the devil. Other stuff that did, like LOTR or Dark Knight are, to some extent, prepared with built in factors like fan bases and name recognition and a recognizable genre.

        Inception did well for itself because of its quality, but also because it was working off the success of Batman and a fanbase for Nolan–although this fanbase hadn’t worked several years earlier with Prestige. District 9 is probably a similar story of a film succeeding because of its quality and proving something to an audience.

        I think, however, those cases are sadly anomalys in today’s marketplace. Insidious made money mostly because it was made so cheaply, and it didn’t have stellar repeat business. It did well because it was a scare film in a season devoid of many scare films with a very effective trailer following on a trend that has made good money of late. It could have been an abysmal movie and done the same sort of business.

      • koutchboom says :

        Insidious held up well compared to most scare pics, I don’t think it ever dropped over 50% which is a miracle for most horror films. Horror films are all about opening weekend. That was the point that I was making about that film, it’s speaks well to good word of mouth, and I was mainly trying to say that not everyone thought it was a completely shit film, quite the opposite it was majority liked.

        But real quick, you get what I’m saying about IM2 right? Me bringing up it’s box office was in reference to your notion that the general consensus of the film wasn’t that it fucked the fans like we have been saying, but I was trying to show…while maybe it didn’t fuck the fans….it didn’t get any new ones like most post 9/11 franchises do.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Inception, damn i almost fell asleep in that flick. Not kidding. Oh, it was not bad, had some very good imaginative moments, but that is all they were ,moments, not a whole film. It just did nothing overall and every one of my friends except one, felt the same way about it, and that homage to OHMSS was dreadful and just dull as dishwater.

      • koutchboom says :

        Wait……….is TDK Harry Knowles? hehehe just messing. I am sort of surprised with how much I enjoyed Inception.

      • Bartleby says :

        the problem is that as I look at IM2 numbers, they look similar to IM1 stateside and are greater internationally. I know you scoff above, but then you are resting on conjecture to say that it should have been expected to make so much more. I don’t think so. Look at most comic book movies, they have a window of money they make. IM2 is in the upper eschelon of that window, even with being significantly less quality.

        Since these movies tend to make their money in the first few weeks, when everyone ignores critics anyway, and there will always be people who stay away because something is a ‘comic book’ , one can’t make any claims about IM2′s quality or lack thereof affecting the bulk of its box office.

        If it is indeed as you said, then the overkill/backlash/underwhelming nature of IM1 would be more responsible for a negative box office than the quailty of IM2 itself.

      • koutchboom says :

        Well that’s the thing there was such a LOVE for IM1, I mean I don’t know anyone outside of the online world that doesn’t love IM1. And yes that’s why IM2 had a major major opening. I mean maybe it’s better to look at it’s opening compared to it’s finale total. You can tell from those numbers there was drop off in the box office between IM1-2, I bet if we had the numbers more people actually saw IM 1 in theaters, even though they were only 2 years apart and the inflation change wouldn’t be that bad.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        What does Harry have to do with me me underwhelmed by Inception? An why would i be him?

      • koutchboom says :

        Hehehe no it was his review of Inception, the TB’ers were all chomping at the bit for it and he didn’t post it till a couple weeks after it came out and he said how he had a hard time staying awake during it, and then the Nolan diehards when ape shit on him for it.

      • Bartleby says :

        I think we are basically in agreement here, but using different facts. How well Avengers does, or IM3 will speak to the true effectof IM2 on audiences.

        I think something you and I may be missing here, is that these things really are like glorified toy commercials–much like TF3–and no matter how much they disenchant a significant part of the audience as a movie, there are more that just show up for the fx, for the costumes, for the celebrities, and have a basic plan; watich it at the theater, watch it again on bluray/dvd/home theater, and keep it around to watch before the rest come out.

        If it can be good enough to get them through that plan, then it has done it’s job.

        The lesson to learn from Insidious was that modesty as a financial appraoch can sometimes garner a bigger payoff than going for the very top slice of the pie. That team actually did pay attention to their Saw success better than those who made the Saw sequels.

      • koutchboom says :

        Hehehehe not really:

        Dead Silence:
        Budget $20 million
        Box office $22,217,407

        Death Sentence:
        Budge: N/A
        Box office $16,964,307

        They had to fail twice before they realized they should go back to their roots.

      • koutchboom says :

        Oh yeah I know Pixar gets a lot of the Toy claims thrown at them, but I see one aisle dedicated to Toy Story, One aisle dedicated to Cars, one aisle dedicated to Ironman 50%, Thor/Cap/Hulk/Marvel take up the other 50%, and Transformers actually not as big of toys as I thought, they usually are sort of split 50/50 with Star Wars, like paired opposite of them. I don’t think Transformers got some great toy deal for some reason because their toy selection is sort of all over the place.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Oh man, you mean I actually agree with harry on a movie?
        Damn, I might have to reconsider my thoughts on inception!

        I would have thought that was right up his alley – i guess even harry can be right about a movie once in a while!

      • Bartleby says :

        I only meant as it applied to Insidious. At some point they went back to that model, but think about that. It’s impressive they even did. Saw was never meant to be some big franchise picture. It was a little indie festival movie really. That’s where i first heard about it.

        So, for them to go back to the drawing board and scale down, that’s impressive. I think the scaledown happened after the script was written though, which might explain the ambitiousness of The Further contrasted against the budget constraints.

      • koutchboom says :

        Yeah I wonder how much influence the PA guy had on the movie. He had a good interview about making movies in how since he doesn’t know what it’s like to make a big budget picture he only knows how to make a small budget picture.

        Also Saw was a short film first, I wonder what the intentions of it where? Just to get money to make a complete film? Or what? James Wan is a funny dude, I follow him on twitter and unless you know who he was you’d never think he’s the director of horror films.

  14. Continentalop says :

    Watched pilot of Alphas last night. Very predictable and cliche ridden, but not horrible. I will see if it starts to get better.

    You also wonder if they’ll start ripping off X-Men storylines, since they are pretty much just ripping off the X-Men.

    • koutchboom says :

      Yeah I’m guessing Straightham gets shot in the season two opener and becomes wheel chair ridden.

    • Toadkillerdog says :

      Yes, pilot is underwhelming bu it gets much better with a few clunkers thrown in. The dude playing the autistic guy is tremendous. I would typically be annoyed with that kind of performance on a constant basis but he really really pulls it off – steal the show every show

      • Continentalop says :

        I thought the autistic kid was annoying as Hell in the first episode, but I read from Xi and others he gets better as the series goes on.

        Actually pretty much all the characters in the first episode were annoying, save for Rachel. The guy I liked the best was the biggest SOB, Bill the FBI agent. I could understand his frustration – he’s surrounded by amateurs and incompetents. This probably isn’t what he was expecting when he joined the FBI.

      • Toadkillerdog says :

        Ya conti, that was my impression as well, If I had not been bored ‘working from home’ that day I might have turned channel after the pilot, but i left it on and watched most of the marathon and i was quite pleased overall by the quality and like i said the autistic dude does a tremendous job, it takes around the third or fourth ep for him to really kick it in and the writers respond. There is a terrific ep with him and Bill the FBI guy maybe my favorite ep of the series

      • koutchboom says :

        My favorite episode is still the rage episode, I just like the way they shot it. I like how they handle that show you can’t really tell if it’s got a small budget they are innovative.

      • Continentalop says :

        Yeah, based on the pilot alone I wouldn’t watch the show again, even though I have a friend working on it. But since a lot of guys here tell me it gets better I’m betting it does improve drastically.

    • Xiphos0311 says :

      Conti Alphas rip off X men in every episode in every way possible. It gets more obvious each episode.

  15. koutchboom says :

    Oh yeah speaking of sequels, watched Evil Dead 2 last night. I used to think I like it better than one, but watching them back to back I may like 1 more? Doesn’t really matter, man though both those movies are fucking loud. There is pretty constant noise throughout both films, luckily they are only 1 hour 20 min. Hopefully we watch Army of Darkness tonight. I can’t remember which one I saw first, I’m pretty sure it was darkness though. I wonder going into Evil Dead’s how much cooler Ash was having seen Darkness first, because he’s sort of nothing in Evil Dead 1, and they only start to hint at his badassness in Evil Dead 2, yeah he does the whole hand battle as well.

    It’s kind of nuts that Empire put Evil Dead 2 in it’s top 50 of it’s top 500 movies of all time. Not sure I’d rank it that high.

    • Echo the Bunnyman says :

      ED2 is the core of the series I think. Still wonder if Raimi had seen that Japanese movie,, Hausu. It has several of his stylistic devices in it.

      AOD wasnt the first of the series I saw, but almost was. I recall the trailers for it playing when I was in 8th grade and the newspaper ads, and finally convincing my dad to take me to go see it at the second run theater–back to back with Matinee. When I first saw it advertised, I didnt realize it was part of a series, but Dark Horse released a comic that tied in and pointed out it was part of the Evil Dead series.

      So, about a week or two before I saw AOD we managed to catch ED on Sci-Fi (they were still trying to find programming to show since they had just started around that time) and that almost clinched my seeing of AOD at the theater, because my dad thought the first was boring and cheap, although now he rates it. So, when I saw AOD, I was surprised by how different and original it seemed. I just automatically assumed ED2 was also horror and that this was the start of the comedy.

      When I got around to reading Roger’s review of AOD, he talks about how it’s a stale redo of ED2, but that for all twelve year olds it must feel breathtakingly original.

      Funny, because I saw AOD and ED both several times over the years, and yet never managed ED2 until much later in 1997 when someone gave me the VHS for Christmas. I think it really is the best of the series. It reaches back to ED and forward to AOD.

      I can see the case being made for ED1 as best, but I think the tree rape nixes that for me. It’s a very well done horror movie, it’s probably the best horror movie of the year it came out. Yes, ahead of The Shining, which I like but find terribly overrated.

      • Jarv says :

        Evil dead 2 was massive when I was a kid, but I never saw it. Evil Dead itself was banned.

        The first I saw was army in the cinema.

        Awesome film.

      • Continentalop says :

        I actually saw all three in order. Saw Evil Dead as a kid, then Evil Dead II as a teenager, and finally AOD at the theater. I prefer ED2 over any of them.

  16. Jarv says :

    Just seen the trailer for immortals.

    That is a fucking awful trailer. It’s something I’m disposed to like and that trailer has pit me off.

  17. koutchboom says :

    Tv spot #7 second 22

    http://www.filmofilia.com/five-paranormal-activity-3-tv-spots-75754/

    Sooooo now we are putting @Twitter mentions in these?

    I wonder if Harold got paid for it.

  18. koutchboom says :

    Droid glad to your brothers work is getting attention.

    http://www.pricasso.com/

  19. Continentalop says :

    OK, which one of us is going to watch this SyFy movie?

    http://cdn.springboard.gorillanation.com/storage/xplayer/yo033.swf

    I mean it is called Sand Shark and it has Brook Hogan in it.

  20. koutchboom says :

    I don’t mind QT.

    Bastards was surprisingly fun. I think KB2 is the only movie he’s made that bored me. I need to rewatch Jackie Brown because it bored me when I saw it, but I was watching it on a bootleg. I remember seeing Pulp Fiction for the first time (and we somehow didn’t return the tape, we were on Vacation and decided to rent it and that was back when rental tapes still cost a hundred something $$’s) and how awesome I thought it was.

    I will say I do dislike all the attempts to out QT, QT, those are all usually fucking horrible.

    • Droid says :

      I will say I do dislike all the attempts to out QT, QT, those are all usually fucking horrible.

      Things To Do In Denver When You’re Dead being the most heinous example.

      Jackie Brown gets better every time I watch it. I was meh about it when I first saw it at the cinema. Seen it 4 or 5 times now (more than any other QT) and it’s my favourite of his. Good double feature with Out of Sight.

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